Viva la Idiots!

Viva la Idiots!

 What’s funny, (not funny ha-ha) is I wasn’t planning on writing about this at all.  It really isn’t my compétence, as the French would say, or “expertise” as I would say (not that I really HAVE expertise at all – other than, what has to be, the worlds biggest collection of stolen pens and post-it notes).  So, I’m watching Disney’s “Ratatouille” the other night with my nephews when one of the characters says one of my favorite lines in any movie…EVER.  The line: “I hate to be rude, but we’re French!”  Now to be fair, I have never been to France, (wait a minute, how is that “fair” I wanna go to France).  But I have met people from France and personally know several French Canadians.  I don’t know if it is the pouty-lipped-pansy-language or what, but they’re a unique group of people.

So, I’m watching the movie and I thought to myself, “The French (…eyeroll…)!  If there is a country that couldn’t recognize a correct political decision, even if it fell out of the sky, landed on their face and wiggled, it would be France.”

Why would I say that?  Well, recently the French (…eye roll…) had an election.  And although ousted President Nicholas Sarkozy is an idiot, he isn’t HALF as bad as the new President, François Hollande.

What makes Monsieur Hollande so bad?  Well, he is a hardcore leftist Socialist, whose economic policy plans, according to the Wall Street Journal “have roots in a punitive populism that would make U.S. Congressional class warriors blush.”

His pledge: to tax those who earn €1 million ($1.35 million) a year at a rate of 75%.

SACRE BLEU!!!  75%.  SEVENTY-FIVE PERCENT!!!

Those earning €150,000 a year will be taxed at a mere 45%.  I’m no mathematician but 45% is ALMOST HALF.

I’m not an economist either, but I’m pretty confident the seriously dire economic situation in France will only be helped as those who are earning enough Euro will not leave the country in drones, but will stay and pay, and create new jobs (la sarcasm).

Viva la Idiots! 

We have recently seen something similar in our country.  Recently Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin renounced his U.S. citizenship.  He did it before an initial public offering that values the social network at as much as $96 billion.  In other words, he just made a TON of money, but he won’t be on the hook for nearly the tax amount, as he would if he were a US citizen.  Saverin’s move could save him $67 million in federal taxes, according to data compiled by Bloomberg

According to Bloomberg, “Renouncing citizenship is an option chosen by increasing numbers of Americans. A record 1,780 gave up their U.S. passports last year compared with 235 in 2008, according to government records.”  It continues, “Income-tax rates for top U.S. earners will rise to 39.6 percent from 35 percent next year, and rates on capital gains and dividends also are scheduled to rise unless Congress blocks the increases.”

Back to the French (…eye roll…).  When Sarkozy questioned Hollande (we shall call him “La Douche” from now on) about his tax proposals he said, “It’s a message of social cohesion…It’s a matter of patriotism.”  HEY!!!!  That sounds familiar. That’s kinda the same thing Obama said (although I imagine it sounds sexier in French).  English or French is boils down to a whole bunch of “merde.”  As fun as it sounds, you can’t punish the job creators.  Well, I guess you can, that and you can regulate them to death.  It just hurts everyone.

The thing is, you can make the rich the butt end of your class-warmongering, redistributionary, tax-hiking rhetoric all day long.  But don’t be surprised when they pack up and leave.  And guess what?  They’ll take their wealth with ’em.  It’s sad, and a damn shame for American opportunity and economic growth.

If I, with my liiiiiiiiiittle tiny right leaning brain, can see that why can’t the rest of the world?

Vive la Capitalism!

Additional reading

Quotes regarding the French:

“France has neither winter nor summer nor morals. Apart from these drawbacks it is a fine country. France has usually been governed by prostitutes.” —Mark Twain

“I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me.” —General George S. Patton

“Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion.” —Norman Schwartzkopf

“We can stand here like the French, or we can do something about it.” —Marge Simpson

An old saying: Raise your right hand if you like the French…. Raise both hands if you are French.

LIFEZILLA:  With a name like Lifezilla it’s gotta be good.

28 responses to “Viva la Idiots!

  1. Over the weekend someone called me a bigot on Facebook because I used the term “filthy rich.” (I was unaware that it is a term as vile as, say, the N word. Huhn. Who knew???) I’ve been thinking about wealth and poverty and morality and success ever since. And honestly…I don’t know which side is right. I mean, we all should be free to be as wealthy as possible and not be punished for it. On the other hand, it is pretty morally filthy that 1 out of 5 kids live below the poverty level while wealthy people spend their income on stuff like elevators for their cars.

    • I agree…no one should be punished for being rich, but at the same time…no child should live in poverty while others buy elevators or their cars lol “as long as there is plenty, poverty is evil.”-rfk

  2. ok…I am fairly certain I will be getting axed from your blog oon for my “french” ways ( ; but, I have a few words about the french…Revolutionary War…it may be quite easy to make fun of them now, but without we sure wern’t mocking them when they stood side by side with us fighting for our independence from Britain… they were a monumental factor in our victory…they are part of the reason we call ourselves Americans. Now, as far as the “job creators” argument…I would love to debate this one with you, but not sure if this is a blog for dissenting openings or if that kind of stuff is allowed? I don’t want to cause trouble, but would love to hash this out…rationally, calmly, deliberately. I don’t want to fight, just to understand. Let me know, because just can’t wrap my litttttle left leaning brain around this Vive le capitalism, and I am not anti-capitalism, but I truly believe that it is inherently flawed. ( :

    • Daniel Quinney

      @Tisha – I wanna hear what you have to say.

      • I logged on with my questions but not sure this is the place…I know I see things differently and am even willing to admit maybe I am wrong. I certainly don’t know all the answers. I didnt mean to stir the pot or to upset anyone. My logic will pale in comparison to the views on Capitalism posted here I won’t try to challenge them. I would fail miserably. I am not against Capitalism. I just have a hard time with certain aspects of it.
        But I must say this…yes, a Kennedy… Bobby Kennedy was a champion for the poor. He was monumental in the civil rights movement. He took on causes his lifestyle would have easily allowed him to ignore. I admire him greatly.
        I will never believe that poverty is a choice. And yes, I know I may sound silly to people, but I do feel guilty about the world’s problems…perhaps, only a small part my responsibility…but small is still some.
        and Danny, I love the blog! Thanks for not axing me.

        • Josh Loveless

          Tish,

          Poverty is not a choice, that is for certain. Nobody chooses to be poor. Have we ever stopped to consider that poverty however might just be a part of life and a part of the test, both for the poor and for us? And I am actually sincere in my belief that we really are responsible in some degree for these problems. That wasn’t meant to be snarky or sarcastic. I too feel guilty about it. But I also recognize that I am not perfect and I am as clueless as the next guy as to what to do about it other than to do exactly as the savior says and to never worry about money again and just go to work at the work and expect blessings in return. But I am too faithless for that. I don’t have the confidence to know that my family will be taken care of and be happy if I follow that path. Perhaps I am just weak.

          However I do believe that staying in poverty and not being self-reliant and constantly accepting a hand out IS a choice. Not taking responsibility for your actions is a choice. There are so many programs in the U.S. for getting people help and getting them back on their feet. There is no power under heaven that is intentionally keeping certain people down. Just because you were born in the ghetto doesn’t mean that you have to die there.

          But seriously. Comparatively, the poorest American is still better off than 70% of the rest of the world. We really should be pretty happy with that and we should focus on the things that have worked, not on social programs that infinitely care for people who don’t want to care for themselves….

          BTW. RFK was a good man. But he was a huge hypocrite. We all are of course, nobody’s perfect. But the fact is, the rich and powerful preach a lot about what the rest of us should be doing, but will do everything in their power to avoid doing it themselves. They can do this because they are rich and powerful enough to be heard, not because they are right, or because they are effective. I can think of no better example of this behavior than the Kennedy family who really believes that they are above the law.

        • Daniel Quinney

          Tisha,
          If you want to email me your questions I’ll answer them. I’m not as fast a replier. I have to kick things around. I would love to hear what you have to say. And I don’t think you upset anyone. I welcome hearing a different point of view.

          Whatever you wanna do. That’s how easy I am.

          • ok…so I will try to keep this as short as possible…I could probably spew about this for pages, but in order to try and keep you from absolute boredom will abbreviate as much as possible…yes, this will be a huge stretch for you…indulge me! ( ;

            Job creator…don’t punish the job creator, dont tax or regulate the job creator, we can’t upset them…we need the job creator, if we allow them to keep more money in their pocket and allow them to pay employees $7 an hour rather than an actual wage that a person can live on, we can keep more of them here! ok…gag me. I have to be honest here…are you kidding me? How is it that the 1% in thisw country are in possession or their cumulative worth is higher than the other 99% of the nation. Really? Think about that. The top 1% of this nation have more money that all the 99% together…lump sum. We seem to think that by no regulating and staying out of corporations, big business that we will somehow allow these people to create more jobs with all the extra revenue they keep. Really? News Flash. They have the money already and DON’T do it. They don’t do it now. Why on earth would they do it if they were allowed to do even less? The 1% of this capitalistic society own the other 99% and if you don’t believe that…look it up. They own you. They own all of us. They make their astronomical profits by exploting the working class. They are not working anymore than anybody else. The difference is we put a value on a job creator and de-value a laborer. In this country, the gap between rich and poor is larger than ever. Have people suddenly just become lazier? I don’t think so. There is only so much money in circulation. Let’s just use a flat $100 for argument’s sake. You have 100 Americans who share $100. The top 1% would have $50 while the other 99 split the other $50. No matter how you split that $50, when you do it 99 ways there is no way it can ever be fair. Not everybody has the opportunity to be the 1%…sure, you may be born in the ghetto, but don’t have to die in it…but, that being said…you will never be one of them. You won’t. Is it because you didn’t work enough? Didn’t develop your talents? Squandered what you should have made yours…Is it because maybe you weren’t afforded the same opportnities in life that somebody else was granted? Who knows? It could be for any number of reasons…but, more importantly not all 99 will ever be able to earn that kind of money, because it isn’t there…we allow these corporations to control this nation. They turn enormous profits, wield political power, exploit workers and for some crazy reason we look to them as our saving grace, for they are the job creators and the 99% need them. We allow them to pay people $7 and somehow tell ourselves that it is ok…if they don’t want to work for minimum wage…dont. Quit. Go do something else. While that sounds great in theory, it is not feasible. The logistics of that don’t compute. If all the 99 wanted more from life, wanted to do better, they could do everything in their power, but there is still only $50 that must be split. Somebody, or lots of somebodies HAVE to work for less in this system. It is an absolute fact. Teachers? Police? We need people in these jobs. No, we need good people in these fields, but we expect them to do so making a wage that is ridiculous. A teacher in Utah starts at $20K…really? But, somebody has to do it because we need every job. If we only had job creators and no laborers…where would we be? Job creators are only allowed to create jobs when laborers work for them. It is the working class in this nation that is being enslaved (for lack of a better word.) I know…I told you…a stretch…but it is so true. Even the founding fathers were wary of corporations centuries back (East India Trading Company.) They did not trust them and went even so far as to warn of their powers. “I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.” Thomas Jefferson. Yet know we applaud them, praise them for their hard work and achievements…when did we decide that those achievements were actually earned? They really just worked that much harder than everybody else? I don’t know, but I find that a bit of a stretch. I just don’t see it. I see them making their monies on the backs of regular people who have nowhere else to go but to work for them in order to get their piece of the $50. Ok, that being said. do I have a solution? No. Do I know how to fix it? I wish. All I know is that I am always baffled why people find it so easy to defent those 1% and deem them hard workers and find it so easy to condemn the other and say they don’t deserve more than they have. If they wanted more, they would simply apply themselves and go get it…I was once asked by my brother-in-law to give all my shoes except one pair to children in Africa in order to prove that I really did care about the poor. Ok..got the point…I am a glutton. I own several pairs of shoes, many of which are frivolous and I could put my money where my mouth is and donate my heels to the children of Africa…my response to him was this: “What? How dare you to ask me to give up MY shoes…I earned those shoes with the sweat of MY brow…those are MINE… all MINE…why would I enable the pathetic poor people in Africa by giving them anything they didn’t earn…where is the lesson in that? If they wanted shoes, they would have them…they choose not to have shoes…in fact, they must love not having shoes because if they wanted them, they would go find a way to get some. They would earn their own shoes…just like ME…give MY shoes…pfffff….some nerve” So, what is the answer? I don’t know. Is it right for me to have more than one pair of shoes because I earned them? It is legal…I don’t know that it is ethical, so I guess just like RFK, I am a hypocrite. I admit that. I am not proud of that, but I am. It is true. I don’t give everything I have to the poor. Plain and simple. The argument here being that there are people that are born on this earth, within our own country that don’t have the opportunities I had to be in a place where I am to buy extra shoes. It has nothing to do with their work ethic. Nothing. There are plenty of poor people who work and work very hard and in the same breath there are plenty of wealthy, extremely wealthy who have never worked a day in their life…such is life. Poverty in itself is not evil. It is not the lack of shoes that is evil. For me, what is evil is thinking that for one second that because someone worked harder than someone else because they created over labored…not all of us can be creators…not all of us can be laborers. There are other talents in this world that don’t involve making money. Why do we deem one talent more worthy than another. We all need each other to co-exist. But for some reason we find it easier to believe that those 1% are earners…when in fact, they earn nothing without our work. So, why is it that we can’t just admit that while Capitalism is perhaps one of the best economic systems in place today, that it still isn’t completely fair. It can’t be when 1 is worth the same $50 as 99. That is a direct result of the power wielded by corporations. They control everything. I just refuse to praise them for their contribution of jobs to the 99%. The profit margins are comical. And yet, we look at the poor as the parasites in society. I see the a parasite as an organism that uses it’s host, usually unbeknownst to the host for it’s own advancement and with detriment to the host. So, who are the parasites? For me…the 1%. They use the 99, their host and take from them to their detriment that they may work less and earn more…..ahhhh, see I tried to keep this short…sorry…I tried. And again, I don’t know the answers, I don’t know how to fix it or if it can even be fixed…I am just saying that Capitalism and the 1%, the growing gap between rich and poor, and the number of people dependent on a government that can’t afford to continue to bank roll them are directly linked and while I do believe there are definite perks to the system, I don’t believe it is helping this country. I don’t believe that all poor people don’t work and choose to be poor. It makes no sense to me…. ( : with that…I bid you adieu….until morning….I have about 3 other arguments equally as lengthy. I am glad you want to hear my crazy opposing view…just didn’t wasn’t sure…I am always up for discussion…not always up for a fight and lately I find myself there more often than not (being the minority in Utah gets old.) haha. I had to text this from my phone…so I apologize already for the grammar and spelling errors… I just don’t care enough to fix them all, I am hoping you can read between the mistakes. ( ;

  3. Josh Loveless

    Of course capitalism is flawed! It’s an economic system designed by man to be used by man. Man is flawed. He produces nothing that is perfect or without flaw.

    Not all “wealthy” or “rich” people are job creators. As a consumer, you are just as much a job creator as anyone out there. In fact most of the jobs you “create” are in third world countries. Yes YOU fund sweatshop labor around the world. Don’t forget that you vote with your dollar every time it changes hands (earning, saving, spending, investing et et et)

    Speaking of third world and voting with your dollar; We talk ALL the time about poverty in this country. PUHLEASE! There is no real poverty in America. I mean yes, there are people who are homeless and go hungry, but they don’t have to, the heavens know there are plenty of programs out there for people, both government and non, both religious and non that offer a helping hand. 1 in 5 kids goes hungry in the U.S. 65% of children eat less than 1 meal a day in Asia. 65%! I have lived in places that would break your heart AND your mental constitution, where children and the aged died so fast from silly easy to cure diseases that their bodies were literally piled in the streets. The truth is we should be having a freaking parade in this country for how well we have managed our economic disparity. We should be celebrating in the streets and then determining what we are going to do for the rest of the world.

    Instead we choose to while away the hours watching mindless television programming, shopping for junk at malls (made in third world countries by America’s new slave labor), and complaining about things online.

    The truth IS: America truly is a nation “Of the people, by the people, and for the people”. If we have complaints, if we don’t like the status quo, if we think the rich are corrupt and the poor are innocent then we should do something about it, because we are the ONLY ones who can. No one is going to save us from this predicament, we have to save ourselves. If you’ve stood by and done nothing while this country went to hell in a hand basket like the media would have you believe, and you don’t like it, you have no one to blame but YOU! You are complicit by your actions and inactions. It’s about time people in this country started taking responsibility for themselves.

    Finally, the sin of pride is universal. It affects ALL of us, the rich, the poor, the elite, and the commoner all equally. Are we not ALL lower than the dust? It’s just as much a sin to look up the hill and despise someone’s achievements, or think to diminish them as it is for them to look down their noses at the the bottom. Tell me who gets to decide what “fair share” is. After that, I will THEM to go to hell! They wouldn’t know what fair was if it bit them on the ass and didn’t let go. There are only two people who can judge fair, you in your own life, and the one perfect person who has perfect understanding.

    P.S. The only thing that French’s mustard has in common with the nation of France is they are both YELLOW!

    🙂 Night!

  4. Josh Loveless

    I guess I have somewhat more to say concerning this matter ;)…

    America has been the butt of jokes of the Eastern World for nearly two and half centuries. We are a nation FULL of hypocrites. Even from our founding by good men who sought for freedom for all… white.. male… land owners. I mean seriously, RFK?!??!! A Kennedy preaching about poverty?!?!? WTF!? That’s like a wolf preaching about eating vegetables.

    The truth is in today’s society with the knowledge and power at our fingertips we are guilty of one of the greatest sins of ALL time. Moral Apathy. Apathy at the plight of our fellow man. Apathy at the decaying morals all around us. Apathy at the death of religious freedom. Apathy toward sin and worse the sinner. Apathy toward our own peril. It’s really quite sad.

    And then every once in a while we get that moment of inspiration and we get pissed, and we… post something on Facebook. Sigh. And we say the most ridiculous things (myself included). Some of the things we rail against… oh my. It’s like we actually believe that we can force people to change their humanity. It’s like saying “Damn these wolves! They all have teeth! I will not rest until wolves are born without teeth!” That’s effective. You might as well try to attack outer space for being cold and dark and therefore evil.

    There is only one cure for what ails us. But are we willing to “sell all we have and give it to the poor”? Are we too like the young rich man who probably looked Jesus bewildered wondering, “What the heck,!? Why should I do that when everybody else gets to keep their stuff!” Aye, that’s the part we all missed, the fact that we don’t actually know what the man did, only that poverty and sin persist today. Have we no faith? Consider the lilies of the field right? Neither do they toil, nor do they spin. But we sure as hell do.

    What this country needs, and the rest of the world too is good swift kick in the shorts. Seriously we are like children who need a spanking in the worst possible way. And don’t forget that in the end, when Satan in bound and finally conquered and tossed back into the abyss, it won’t be by God per se, but by the collective human race, by simply not listening to him anymore. By wising up, catching a clue, and getting on with our eternity…

    Anywho. Have a good night. And don’t feel too guilty because ALL the world’s problems are after all a small part your responsibility….

  5. Yes… we O so readily “dis” the French. Guess who has the #1 Health Care system in the entire world? (oui, La France) Obesity problem? Nope! Rampent Cancer & heart disease? Nope! Lowest Stress & Highest quality of life… yep France. What a bunch of phkn idiots, right? They should change everything and be more like US. The only thing the U.S. & France rival each other on is arrogance. (and odor, yes we stink too)
    As far as the money goes… You can make millions, billions, thousands or hundreds. It doesn’t really matter. The stress only mounts if you carry a high debt ratio. It doesn’t matter what you make… it matters how much you keep. Are you enslaved to creditors? There are two types of people in the world: Those who earn interest and those who pay it. Which type are you? If you’re disgusted with how much the US is in debt, be the solution. Make a new personal covenant to live a personal debt free life.
    Also, the tax thing… The fact is that we all are recipients of a free nation and we all need to pay our “fair” share each to keep it that way. Duping the system so you can get out of giving back in taxes for all of your financial blessings in your life is not clever, commendable or patriotic capitalism… it’s just plain (pardon my French) DOUCHEEEE!!! Yes, it’s the land of opportunity. Therefore, When you sieze the opportunity this land has to offer, you should give back a portion of your success in thanks& appreciation and for Nation preservation. Side affect.. You open yourself up to greater future abundance in your life. (Not doing so is biting the hand that feeds and giving it the middle finger. DOUCHEEEE!! So DOUCHEEE!!)
    I remember a Sunday school ditty that makes a lot of sense: BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN GIVEN MUCH I TOO MUST GIVE. (And let us not forget: Charity never faileth)
    And that concludes my left-leaning JACKMO sermon.
    Vive la Fromage! Voila!
    AMEN

    • Josh Loveless

      Ummmm… having the Government force you to pay taxes to be squandered by politicians is the exact opposite of charity… just want to point that out. Last I checked Jesus said nothing about “taking” from someone to “give” to someone else. Seems to me we need a lesson on the Bible. I do however remember the Bible and Jesus talking about talents and how we are all given them. Heaven forbid that the guy with the talent develops it and uses it and has a good life for it. I would hate to be the guy who was angry about somebody who was given one talent that developed it and made money, only to die and find out that I was given twenty talents but didn’t do a damn thing about them.

      Plus between my 50% to the government, 10% to the Lord, and futher 2-5% to the peeps and other charities, I think I’m pretty well maxed out. I suppose we should let you determine what’s my “fair share”? Do you have an advanced degree in the economics of fair? I am so glad that there are so many people who understand what fair is, cause so far it seems to allude me.

      There is no such thing as a “free nation” just like there’s no such thing as a “free lunch” (and yes I get the differences in the use of the word free). There are those who are willing to live free and pay the sacrifice needed to have freedom and those who don’t (sometimes because they simply know no other way). Taxes are part of that sacrifice. But we aren’t talking about taxes to provide services. We are talking about using taxes as a way to balance socio-economic disparity, or worse to feed our addictions and silly antics. That’s just plain disgusting.

      The fact is if we all got what we “deserved”, we’d all die horrible deaths and rot in hell for an eternity. Good thing there is an atonement, cause I for one actually admit that I need one.

      • Josh Loveless

        Additionally, am I the only one that remembers the Nephites in the BoM who were very very upset about being “enslaved” by the Lamanites. I mean those treacherous Lamanites were asking for 50% of all they had. Oh wait…. I should be happy to pay my 50%.

        Sorry Lamanites! Those dirty Nephites were soooo wrong. They owed that to you because you didn’t have it and needed to distribute it among yourselves….

      • I was “alluding” to the FACEBOOK d-bag that has renounced his citizenship to avoid paying taxes. FAIR can be debated by the politicians. BTW, Gov & Politicians are the same thing… Just wanted to point that out. Also, if you’re paying 50% to the Gov, You’re paying too much. Might want to get a CPA. I guess your definition of squander would be wholly proportionate to the officials you do or don’t like. One person’s perception of pork is another community’s manna from heaven. My economic advanced degree of “common sense” tells me that paying nothing in taxes after making more money than I’ll ever be able to spend in a lifetime is definitely UNFAIR at a minimum and should be more appropriately labeled UNJUST. It’s like milking the cow and then punching the cow in the utter because your bucket runneth over. You’re right… It wans’t Jesus… It was Robin Hood who was taking from the rich to feed the poor. Jesus just hung out w/the poor. So, are you debt free? What % are you paying yourself in your savings and what % are you socking away for the future? Do you earn interest or pay it? MAXED OUT is not a healthy way to describe your financial standing or future outlook. The answers to those financial questions might highlight your reasons for so much pent up hostility.
        Also, You’re perverting my usage of the term FREE NATION. Clarification: We are a free society or nation which differs from say- a totalitarian society. Furthermore, Freedom is not free. It comes @ a price… SACRIFICE. Socio-economic disparity comes from a lack of services. We feed our silly addictions and antics with our take-home pay, not taxes. (Or w/unemployment checks as the case may be or w/ welfare checks etc etc) (Soda anyone? with all this typing I could really go for a coke right now)
        Newsflash: We all eventually get what we deserve. Physical & financial PAIN is both HORRIBLE & HELL served daily right here on planet Earth. DEATH, however, is the sweet ticket out. Do what you can to mitigate your own type(s) of pain. That way you could eventually be of use and assistance to others @ some point in the future.

        • Josh Loveless

          Govt. and Politician ARE NOT the same thing. This is a government “by the people, of the people, and for the people”. Thinking that “politician” is some kind of class, or elite group, or the government itself is what got us into this mess in the first place, and exactly what the Constitution was designed to protect us against. Too bad we didn’t listen and follow it’s precepts and rules. We are in this mess because we choose to be as a collective. Read up on social contracts sometime. I suggest John Locke.

          Thanks for assuming that I am sap and lives like everyone else. Other than my house, I don’t have debt. I save 15% for retirement. I make pretty decent money, and yet I struggle. Why, because I don’t get to keep what I earn. Because I put 15% away just to break even. Because I live in a country full idiots who believe they are free because they live here. You aren’t free because you are an American. You choose freedom or you don’t. You can be just as much a slave to a passion, idea, debt, moral, et as any other person on planet earth. What America IS, is the land of opportunity to be free, as free as you choose within the limits of the law.

          But that’s the difference between me and many other people. I believe freedom is a choice, that the freedom to choose liberty is a gift from our creator so long as I am willing to pay the pice. Other people seem to believe that freedom is given to them by other people, or by the government/politicians.

          Socio-economic disparty DOES not come from lack of services! That is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard in my life. We feed our silly antics with our taxes. You just don’t know anything about it because you’ve never bothered to find out what you actually pay taxes on. We pay taxes to subsidize our services, including ridiculous ones that only benefit the rich. Socio-economic disparity happens for an infinite number of reasons, or at least as many reasons as there are human beings. You people act as if this is the first society in history to have this problem. Ugh. Are you kidding me? Like I said before we’ve done a pretty damn good job in this country considering. It could be a lot worse. Do you not admit there are people in this world who CHOOSE to be what they are? Do you not believe that there are people who CHOOSE to be a janitor, knowing full well the consequences of such a decision? Yes, it may be a matter of education, but isn’t that also a choice? I come from a family that was pretty damn poor for a long time. I’ve lived off both the government and the church’s charity. I’d rather not do that again. No thank you! But there are some people who CHOOSE that because it is available. None of these facts are in dispute. Instead, they are ignored, which is even worse.

          I am not in pain because I am in debt. I am tired of watching people with attitudes like yours destroy freedom. It’s not me I am concerned with, it’s my children. You sacrifice their future with your attitude, apathy, and obvious lack of education and common sense (and I don’t mean school).

          Again, I am paying fifty percent because I am adding up ALL taxes. Seriously we are all such sheep! No doubt you’ve never been through the exercise of finding out what your real tax rate is, as per my post….

          But you continue on the path you are one. I don’t really care if you decide to hand the reigns of your life over to someone else. But leave me and my kids out of it! Let us choose our own destiny. The last time I checked the only person in this whole struggle who made it his life’s mission to remove agency was not somebody I would count as friend. Yet that’s exactly what you choose when you adopt the path you have described, mingled with apathy.

    • Josh Loveless

      I have to add another thing. Most Americans are sooo very narrow minded and have tunnel vision when it comes to taxes. We’ve been duped. We have our taxes automatically withdrawn from our checks, then we sit back and think that “paying taxes” has something to do with filing a 1040 every April. Wrong! If the average American actually added up how much he/she paid in taxes, including and especially the poor, they would be appalled, even sick. But most people never do this. They just look at that 1040 and call it done.

      But what about state income tax… and property tax… and for some luxury tax… and others sin tax… and sales tax… and export tax… and import tax… and travel tax… and excise tax… and tourism tax… and e-rate tax… and gas tax… and auto registration tax… and on and on and on. The fact of the matter is, you directly pay one government entity or another every time you do ANYTHING. You pay tax on your cell phone, you pay it on your cable bill, you pay it when you fly, you pay it when you drive, you pay it when buy something, you pay it when you sell something. You pay it when you spend, you pay it when you save, you pay it when you use a service, you pay it when pay a toll to drive on a road. In some cases you even pay 5 or 6 taxes 3 or 4 times over on the same transaction.

      AND, don’t forget that corporations are in the business of making money. They don’t pay taxes out of charity. They pay because they have to. In order to make a profit they have to build the tax in to the price of the goods they sell. So whenever you buy something from an American company you pay 35% just for the privilege of doing so. You’re “tax free” 401k? WRONG, how much of the earnings go to pay for fees, half of which go to pay taxes? If buy something that was transported (ie food) add on transportation taxes, from gas and from what the transportation company pays in taxes, licenses and fees. If it was built with parts from China you pay for the import taxes, not to mention the taxes the Chinese charged the local company who made the parts.

      People talk about bubbles in the American economy. The truth is the biggest bubble in the world is the tax bubble. Taxes constantly artificially inflate prices across the board. And it’s never enough. You can never give them enough. If you add it all up it’s staggering. It’s what makes America’s true tax burden one of the greatest of all time, including feudalism in the middle ages. The same is true of many European economies. And look where we are now. Every American owes an additional $120,000 just in interest payments on our government debt. You could impose a 100% tax on everyone and still not be out of debt for a decade, not including actually RUNNING the government.

      And we’ve done ALL THIS so that Americans everywhere have access to MTV and TBS, and can buy useless crap on the Internet.

      Our entire life model got screwed up somewhere along the line, and we’ve all been duped. It’s almost as if all those warnings our grandparents told our parents about rebellion, drugs, sex, money, and morality actually came true. It’s almost as if they actually knew what they were talking about. Weird, I know.

      Notice how much the wise are lately looking to our past to answer our questions about the future? Wonder why!?!

      If one more person tells me I don’t pay enough in taxes because I try to maximize my deductions I am going to explode. You have had a bag pulled over your head and tied at the hands and feet and you don’t even recognize it. Your children’s children cannot dig out of the hole we’ve made. But it’s still not enough. Enough is enough. Class war fare is B.S. and we’ve deluded ourselves into thinking that we can just “work it out”. We can’t. We aren’t any better than Greece, and they aren’t any better than France. It is only a matter of time before the damn breaks and people realize the sham that’s been going on. When they realize that the Emperor has no clothes what do you think will happen?

      War.

      • Is Glen Beck you home teacher?

        • Josh Loveless

          No. Believe it or not, I think for myself. What I am saying here isn’t that hard to understand. Nor is it sensationalizing. It only takes a little bit of common sense to see through the flim flam. Consider what we know about the end of the world and the last days and tell me that War is not inevitable. Tell me that all this class war fare, money and tax mongering, spending into oblivion, and supporting immorality will lead to good things… Tell me that you believe that…

          And your solution? Pay more to the government, and don’t go into debt myself. Yes… that’s the answer. Wait, too late. Been doing that for years, doesn’t seem to improve the situation. Too bad I can’t just force everyone else to do it my way. Or maybe this is just the way it’s supposed to be….

  6. your (sp)

  7. alright…break it up you two…this is why I am very careful about to whom I voice my political rants…I know all too well how quickly the conversation turns from simple disagreement to lashing out…I get it…we all (me certainly included) get caught up in our own beliefs…and none of us see every single argument the same…we can’t because we have all travelled different paths, experienced life in completely various ways…we can never see anything exactly the same…and that is healthy…it allows us to be better people…make more informend decisions…and I am really trying to keep God and religion out of the entire picture here because for me that presents a whole new direction and one that is quite problematic…
    Point is, you are both correct…at least in my opinion (and really, I am very important, so you needn’t bother yourself with any other opinions. lol) You both have incredibly articulate well-informed arguments…both of you. Josh, is spot on when he says that freedom is a choice…certainly he is correct, but is freedom the same choice for all? Does it come at the exact same cost for each individual? No. It can’t. Everybody may be blessed to partake of the opportunity in this country, but does not mean that we are all blessed equally? Absoloutely not…It is ludicrious to think that Mitt Romney ( and I only use his name because we all know him) had the same chance to succeed in life as say, the single mom that grew up in the ghetto of Detroit, pregnant at 14, living with a mother who worked in dead end jobs, dropped out of school because she was an unwed mother at an early age and was forced to provide in the only way she knew how…because truth is… not everybody lives in white, middle-class Christian America…there really are people who never get a fair shake… now does that mean she has to die in the ghetto…of course not, but is it really plausible to think she has the same chance at success as Mitt Romney, raised by both parents in an affluent society, father as governor, CEO, educated in the finest private schools and later an education at Harvard? That is a tough pill for me to swallow. I find it incredibly naive to think that the playing field is as equal as we assume. Maybe I am wrong…certainly wouldn’t be the first time, but I just cant fathom that every single person out there that is struggling to make ends meet and working two jobs is making a conscious, deliberate choice to be there. That being said…Josh, I agree…some choose that…some love it…for some, it is easier to just do nothing…the attitude that they are owed something…now, those people, I will personally kick in the teeth. You are owed nothing. None of us are…none. There are some people that I want to strangle with my bare hands…the single mom who wins the lottery but still somehow feels it perfectly acceptable to apply for welfare because she is unemployed? Yep. In the teeth…but, there are so many not like her that I can’t automatically label them all like that. You are also right that even the poor in the country are among the wealthiest on the planet. 100% agreed…but, that being the case, why are we all so hell bent on the concept that what is mine is mine…mine…mine…mine…isn’t it enough that even at 50% taxes we are still better off than most? I don’t know. I would agree with you on taxes being misappropriated, but I had this same argument with Dan(my husband, who deserves a gold medal by the way for living with me and my bleeding heart) last night, the things he believes are frivolous. I believe are crucial for this nation’s prosperity and vice versa. The tax money ill spent for me would differ than the tax money you find squandered. Therein, lies the problem. As bad as our problems are in this country…I can’t name one other place I woud be more proud to swear my allegiance…not one. I love America. That is probably the one thing we all have in common. We all would lay down our lives for this country because of what it stands for…because we know deep down that above all else, we live where we aren’t afraid to worship, in a land where we can say what we want and not be imprisoned, we live in abundance and we recognize that. I also, agree with Russell in that where much is given, much is expected. I believe that if you are blessed enough to be able to be wealthy, whether that be through your hard work or whatever means, that as a decent human being you should turn around and be better than the money. Give back to those that made you who you are…pay them more than $7/hr (the absolute least you can pay an employee without going to jail)…step up and pay them fairly…don’t increase your profits by getting away with anything that isn’t considered criminal…and sorry, but that is most corporations…I am not advocationg you must live like a pauper or can’t profit from your hard work more than the average laborer for your dedication and ingenuity, but be decent about it…you can’t legislate that…you can’t legislate decency and compassion…it is a shame that we even need taxes…that we all can’t just do our part and make this work, but we can’t… and why? …because we are all human and all equal in our greed. We must be accountable in some way and I don’t know how else that would be possible without taxes…if we rely on people to just be charitable, to help the needy…it is simple…it will not happen…we aren’t that kind of people…yes, we should be…but, even as Mormons, who are considered to be some of the most charitable…how much do we really give to charity? More than our 10%?..because the first 10% isn’t as noble as we like to think…it is commanded…it is not out of charity that we pay tithing, it is because we are obedient to the teachings of our church leaders, not charity…the government may allow us to call it a charitable donation but that doesn’t mean we pat ourselves on the back and say we are so good to the poor…We are good to our church, who in turn does much for the poor…correct, but we don’t give that 10% as charity, we give it because it is commanded. I know we all like to think that if we didn’t pay so much in taxes that we would all give that money to charity and be so noble in our pursuits, the idea of being able to give willingly to charity is much more appealing than being forced through taxes…but, in reality, we are so far from that kind of mentality that the only way is through taxation…right or wrong…I am baffled by the vehemence with which we readily defend the rich as hard working..nobody is saying you can’t have wealth or be rich, but to ask that you pay more in taxes than someone that makes minimum wage…is that such a stretch? To deem corporations people that they make exempt themselves from certain taxes…nauseating…they make insane amounts of money and they keep it…they don’t try and benefit society with their profits, they don’t do it now and have plenty of money…they won’t ever do it unless mandated. So, really we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t…nobody is right in this…taxes are a mess…big, fat, huge mess…but are they necessary? Yes.
    I don’t know where we go from here…because you are both right in your own elements. I wish there was a happy medium. The middle is the only place we can meet. But, to get there we all have to give in on some things and that is what nobody seems to be able to do anymore. It is all or nothing. It is really quite sad.

    • Josh Loveless

      The rich do pay more than everyone else. Even at a lower percent than in 2002 they pay more. The 1% that everyone is so angry at pays 40% of all income tax in America. You guys are sooooo missing the point. Again, you’ve been duped. It’s not about rich or poor. It’s not about “fair share”. It’s about tyranny. It’s about your freedom being pulled out from under you like a rug, and guess what, you’re head is about to hit the ground.

      News flash! Income taxes having NOTHING to do with funding the government. It’s like people in this country actually believe that income taxes are used to fund programs. WRONG! We’ve proven we’ll pay for the programs no matter what it takes, taxes or not. If we can’t “afford” it, well that’s just nonsense, we’ll borrow it. Who are they borrowing from? It’s not the Chinese, it’s the taxpayer, it’s your children and mine. We’re not even getting a good interest rate on the debt, cause we’re buying it back from ourselves at a discount to stop the bleeding.

      Income taxes have been from day 1 about control. How do I keep the rich from getting richer, the poor from getting poorer, and keep the middle class put? Class through taxation. This is the point. It’s feudalism in another form. AND, you are only thinking federal income tax. You’ve got to stop and think it all through. The entire system has grown out of control. National debt and taxes are making us all into serfs, while a ruling aristocracy is raised above you with winners chosen by themselves. Government programs have NOTHING to do with helping the poor or the needy. Tell me that Solyndra helped the poor? How many millions of that went to providing opportunity to someone in the ghetto? If government and their programs cared about the poor they would be run in the right spirit and the corruption and the waste would stop. It doesn’t. And you and I pay for it.

      I fight for lower taxes on the rich because I fight for lower taxes on the poor. I fight for lowering taxes because I fight for lower taxes on the middle class. I fight for lowering America’s tax burden because I believe in freedom and agency. I believe that we are blind and we are surrounded by “Gadiantons” who wish to live fat off our labor. They need us, and they need us to be mindless entertained dolts who don’t care but go to work and provide for everyone else. ( I don’t mean some big conspiracy, but there is an elitest mentality among many who would take from you, at gun point if they could). I believe this because we can see it in every corner, both in corporations and the government.

      As I said earlier this taxation bubble hurts the poor most of all. Do you think it is fair that 50% of Americans don’t pay ANY income tax? Do you think it’s fair that 19% of Americans actually get a tax paycheck? Well guess what? It doesn’t matter. The poor are still the most over taxed people on the planet if we are talking about percentage of income. As I said before they pay taxes on food, water, gas, buying, selling, working. They pay a larger portion of their income than any of us because they can’t get out of it. Taxing the rich doesn’t increase or decrease their pay one iota, and it doesn’t affect the taxes they pay. Oh yea, and guess what, they’ll soon have to pay more taxes on everything for healthcare. Not only do they have to pay for sales tax on a pace maker, but there are 72 new excise taxes on Obamacare that increase the price of nearly everything, so that something like a pacemaker plus installation increases in cost by over 20%!

      Tell me this is “fair”. Tell me this is sustainable! As I said before, you can’t give the government enough. You can tax everyone in this country 100% of all their income and not cover the interest! HELLLO PEEEOOOOPPPLEEEE! This isn’t about rich and poor. This is the road to slavery and the end of freedom if we don’t put a stop to it. But you keep believing this class warfare propaganda that the left is handing you. You know that Obama’s millionaire tax only increases federal revenue by $453 billion over 10 years. That’s enough to run Obama’s government for about 4 months. 10 years of taxes for 4 months. What a deal! But you go ahead and tell me it’s about the poor. You go ahead and tell me it’s about saving the government from financial disaster.

      We need to open our eyes. If we don’t the America you and I grew up in, the land of opportunity, is dead. Our children will look back and despise our apathy, just as I look back and despise the rebellion and foolish squandering of my parent’s generation. They should have listened to their parents. Honor they father and thy mother and thy days shall be long upon the land…. or screw them, live it up, give a little here, take a little there and face demise.

      The gospel may never again leave the Earth and good things still lie ahead in the world. But that world may not include an America. And we all know freedom is the ability to execute agency. Without it we loose one very important battle, and we know to whom.

    • Josh Loveless

      http://bostonherald.com/news/columnists/view/20220529unclear_sailing_for_kerry/srvc=home&position=1

      Your American left. The epicenter of human hypocrisy in the 21st century.

  8. Great discussion everyone. If you’ll allow me, here is a thought that I feel is relevant. A metaphor was brought up earlier in this thread of a simple economy where there was only $100 (or something like that). And how it is unfair if someone has more than someone else. I’d like to continue with that metaphor and try to understand what it really implies. So let’s say that on a small island, there is only $100 to go around. That is it. And right now, there are 100 people on this island. Two or three of the people have about $15 each and the other 97 people have about .57 cents. Whatever the case, the math here isn’t what is important.

    I think this metaphor is trying to say two things. First, that if one person has more, someone else HAS to have less. And second, that if one person “hoards” his money, or for some reason doesn’t spend it on whatever the rest of the people on the island have to offer, the rest of the island will suffer. To me, that is the message.

    This can be a divisive metaphor because it pits those that have more against those that have less. It suggests that this inequality is bad, and that the inequality can only be resolved if the rich have less.

    If you leave the metaphor here without going further, we all see this limited “pie” of money with only so much to go around. But let’s say that one of the guys with $15 asks a few of the other people on the island to build him a house (or make him a widget or something). So let’s say he pays $10 for this project and now he has a house. So how much money is on the island? Only $100 dollars right? Wrong. There is now $110 dollars on the island. True there may still be only $100 paper dollars. But because the house is worth $10 and can be sold or rented or whatever, there is now $110 in this simple economy. I guess what this says to me is that the limited pie view where there is only so much to go around, doesn’t accurately represent the relationship individuals have with “dollars” in our real economy. So can we truly say that the guy with .57 cents can’t have any more money because “it isn’t there” to have?

    The other suggestion of this metaphor might be that the person with $15 who hoards his money or for whatever reason doesn’t spend it on what other people have to offer is somehow a bad apple in society because he doesn’t “share” what he has with others. This may or may not be the implication, but I’ll speak to it anyway. If someone is going to hoard money, they are either going to keep it in a bank or under their mattress. If they keep it in a bank, the bank will make investment loans with it to those who are active in the economy. This seems like a good thing. So far so good. No harm no foul. If he keeps it under his mattress and doesn’t spend it, he has only succeeded in possibly lowering the price of everything on the island. But the value remains the same and all things are therefore equal. This can easily be envisioned by stating the metaphor differently. In other words, instead of an island with $100 dollars, say it was $1000. With the percentage of ownership the same, it doesn’t change anything if I have .57 cents in one economy or $5.70 in the other. So if the guy with $15 dollar takes it out of the economy and buries it, he really hasn’t hurt anyone’s value. It simply alters the denomination. So how can anyone complain that a rich person isn’t sharing his wealth?

    Let’s get off the imaginary island and back to the real world. To me, our economy is so diverse and interactive that no matter how rich Mitt Romney or John Kerry is, (giving an example to both the right and the left), it doesn’t affect me. If Mitt or John make money tomorrow or lose money tomorrow, why should I care? And why would I wish that Mitt or John should have less? Would it help me if they had less? No. The only motivation that anyone would wish for them to have less would be based in envy.

    Lastly, for all of us who are poor, do we have any reason to complain about the rich? If we think we do, we should probably ask ourselves this question. Where would you rather live? Would you rather be poor living among rich people? Or would you rather be poor living among poor people? To me, I’d rather be poor and live in a country with lots of rich people. Because they are the ones that can afford to pay me to mow their lawns, to sell them services, to create new products for them, and to advise them in their affairs. They can give me opportunity and I can grow. If I lived where everyone else was as poor as I was, I may not have the same opportunities.

    So what is the big deal? Embrace inequality! Isn’t the left always asking society to completely embrace diversity? It seems that when it comes to financial diversity, they aren’t so open. Life wasn’t meant to be fair. And even if it was right to attempt to spread wealth around, I don’t think there is a wise and just enough body of people on the planet to make that happen in any way that comes close to something that is just. Apparently, France and their new president feel otherwise.

    • true…good call on the island scenario…food for thought…but, I guess my point was that in order for capitalism to work in the best way possible is if the people making most of the money are reinvesting those monies back into the country to grow the economy…it isn’t happening, at least not right now…that was my only point.
      and I want to clarify that I only used Mitt as the example of rich because his name is everywhere right now, I certainly didn’t mean that wealthy are only Republicans…when I talk of the extremely rich people, I respect no party…it is a term that applies to any affiliation or none….sorry, if it came across as a bias statement…many democrats are equally as guilty…Kennedys included.
      In regards to the statement about being envious of their money….when you say the “only” motivation one would have for them to have less is a bit much…at least for me personally, I can’t speak for anyone else…but, I am completely sincere when I say that my reasons and beliefs about capitalism do not stem from envy of others…and I don’t mean that I am better than people because I don’t envy them…I am as guilty as the next of envy, but it is not after money…that is certain…I do not envy them. It is not because of envy that I think things need to be regulated or people taxed fairly…not envy. That is the truth…for me. I think that is an easy generalization to throw out there…if you can’t have all the money, nobody can…that isn’t why I believe the way I do…sure, do I wish I had more money at times, yes…it affords certain luxuries in life that would make many things easier, but do I envy what comes with money…not.for.one.second…I have seen money…my family has a lot of money…I have seen first hand, up close and personal what money can do to people, even the very best of people succumb to it…very few escape the ugly side of money…
      …so, when you ask if I would rather live in a rich neighborhood or a poor one??? seriously? Have we really come that far that we label people by how much money they have and perceive one group as more beneficial? I could/can learn just as much from poor people as wealthy people. Maybe the poor neighborhood can’t afford to pay me money to mow their lawn, but maybe they give back more to me than money could ever buy me. Maybe the poor people can’t pay me for my advice…that’s ok…I would give it anyway if asked…everything we do doesn’t have to be based around what we get in return…if we only want to be part of things that can give back to us, we are missing out on the big picture, maybe we should focus more on what we can give others… I guess it is all a matter perspective.
      and if we don’t care what Mitt and Kerry do with their money…why do we give what France does a second thought? If it works for France and they like it…who cares? Good for them.
      and you are right, Life wasn’t meant to be fair…and I am not condemning people with money…I am only saying that maybe just maybe capitalism would work better if it were regulated in a better fashion…do corporations really need to be people? That is my only point. There are things within our power to change in this country and regulating an economic system that isn’t working right now doesn’t seem so crazy…I am not asking for redistribution or wealth…but corporations to pay an equivalent share of taxes…taxes that don’t create hardship for the minimum wage worker…that is all…let the rich be rich…let the poor be poor…great, fine…not saying we all need to be equal and all things fair…the problem here is the labelling of both groups…one as lazy and the other as hard working…hard work does not always equal rich…it just doesn’t.

      • Josh Loveless

        ‎”The main vice of capitalism is the uneven distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the even distribution of misery.” –Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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